|
|
Post by Zscout on Jan 30, 2015 6:14:40 GMT -8
Not sure why Mountain Troll is considered weak in a melee based team at this point.
As an 8/4 creature with a cost of 2, I consider him one of the best values in the game. Invulnerability to magic is a cherry on top.
If anything, I would argue he is the most valuable card on the team in most league play at the moment since other cards are (possibly) too vulnerable to magic.
|
|
erik
New Member
Posts: 17 
|
Post by erik on Jan 30, 2015 6:17:53 GMT -8
Here is a quick fix. Load all the coding involved with Spell Fork onto a 1.44 floppy and throw said floppy out the nearest window. Every thread here and on Miiverse ends in how much we do not enjoy this card, your customers have spoken. This is horrible advice. Hyperbolic arguments and suggestions to remove cards is not the answer. If there were no spellfork, people would be lamenting the next best card lineup. Would you have them get rid of beast tamer too because it makes animal teams too strong? then after the beast tamer, i suppose armor cracker is too good against high armor teams, Farin is too dominant if utilized in a poison team, and Ulthur is just too good at keeping teammates alive. Right? Just get rid of every card and then no one can complain. |
|
|
|
Post by stillgrave on Jan 30, 2015 10:49:04 GMT -8
One persons advice is never "horrible" erik.
As much as I am not a metagamer I do understand that if/when the Spellfork is revamped/removed that it will be replaced with another card that people will complain about.
Thats just the game industry.
What I do know is that when we the players get the Spellfork during a campaign, that campy is no longer poses a challenge, when we get it in draft we always win, when we are allowed to use it in a daily challenge we never lose, finally league is still Spellfork or counter teams competing. This card is game breaking and that is not fair to us.
Removing it from the game and replacing it with something fun and non game breaking so we can not fear/abuse it and try out and compete with the hundreds of other exciting combination of teams is a perfectly viable option.
|
|
erik
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by erik on Jan 30, 2015 11:52:22 GMT -8
One persons advice is never "horrible" erik. As much as I am not a metagamer I do understand that if/when the Spellfork is revamped/removed that it will be replaced with another card that people will complain about. Thats just the game industry. What I do know is that when we the players get the Spellfork during a campaign, that campy is no longer poses a challenge, when we get it in draft we always win, when we are allowed to use it in a daily challenge we never lose, finally league is still Spellfork or counter teams competing. This card is game breaking and that is not fair to us. Removing it from the game and replacing it with something fun and non game breaking so we can not fear/abuse it and try out and compete with the hundreds of other exciting combination of teams is a perfectly viable option. When you say "we" and "us", you really mean to say "I" and "me". If you don't like it, then don't use it. But to tell everyone else how they're supposed to enjoy their game is the epitome of selfishness. |
|
|
|
Post by stillgrave on Jan 30, 2015 12:47:46 GMT -8
Whoa dude! Horrible and now selfish. I just want to discus the Spellfork, and this awesome game, lets us not turn this discussion into a Flame (Wall) thread, so lets take our Mountain Trolling elsewhere? Peace, peace, peace. See you in league.
Simply put for everyone else watching: What is the only thing that is worse than hiring a bad employee? The answer is keeping a bad employee. This is how quite a few of us feel about the 'fork.
|
|
erik
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by erik on Jan 30, 2015 14:08:26 GMT -8
Whoa dude! Horrible and now selfish. I just want to discus the Spellfork, and this awesome game, lets us not turn this discussion into a Flame (Wall) thread, so lets take our Mountain Trolling elsewhere? Peace, peace, peace. See you in league. Simply put for everyone else watching: What is the only thing that is worse than hiring a bad employee? The answer is keeping a bad employee. This is how quite a few of us feel about the 'fork. again, please refrain from using other people in your argument. If you do not like the card spellfork - then you're fine to say "I do not like this card for this reason" or "i think this card is too powerful". But your argument continues to be "everyone else agrees with me" or "quite a few us are in agreement that this card should go". You think spellfork is a "bad employee". I think spellfork is a "great employee". You list reasons why you think it's "game breaking" - makes campaign mode too easy, auto-win if you draft it, challenges become too easy, and leagues are dominated by it. I would counter that the odds of pulling a spellfork in campaign are low enough that you'll rarely see it more than once (if that) during an entire campaign. And for those instances where I would pull a spellfork in campaign, and it helps me clear it faster, i consider that a GOOD thing. plus, you get a new card pool each chapter - if you try to get 100% on each chapter you'll have somewhere around 700-800 gold the next chapter - that's 21-24 new cards, each pack has a 1/7th chance of pulling a rare - so on average you'll start each new chapter with 3 rare cards (in addition to whatever the chapter gives you). I'm fine with those odds when it comes to balancing the difficulty of the campaign mode. Does everyone who pulls a spellfork in a draft waltz to a win? Absolutely not. I've pulled a spellfork 1st pack and not seen a single caster after that. It's far from the "auto-win" you call it. Are challenges too easy with a spellfork? That's a subjective claim - i don't find any challenges that overly difficult with my beast tamer team. I would rather see more restrictive challenges; flyers vs ground, humans vs animals, color challenges, etc. Your last point about leagues being dominated does have some merit, but i would suggest that we haven't seen enough of a sample size to make any meaningful conclusions. Is it a strong card? Yes. Will people gravitate to strong cards if they believe it'll give them the best chance of winning? Absolutely. Hence the reason why removing spellfork does not fix the problem you've identified. lets see how competitive people adjust to the spellfork teams. |
|
|
|
Post by xuande on Jan 30, 2015 16:50:55 GMT -8
Not sure why Mountain Troll is considered weak in a melee based team at this point. As an 8/4 creature with a cost of 2, I consider him one of the best values in the game. Invulnerability to magic is a cherry on top. If anything, I would argue he is the most valuable card on the team in most league play at the moment since other cards are (possibly) too vulnerable to magic. 8 attack for two mana, to be blunt, doesn't cut it in League as an attacker, nor does 4 defense come anywhere close to being a tank in League (outside of Bat Swarm, but that's for one mana with utility. Ulthur has so much utility that he makes teams viable, so his 4 defense is a necessary evil). Physical defense comes cheap in this game, so having only four at two-mana without any offensive prowess is a big liability vs teams that aren't MP-based. And then there's also the problem that a lone Mountain Troll still loses due to time out after 25 rounds, if the opponent has any healer or if Mountain Troll is hitting Soulstealer. Nerfing Spell Fork hard is not the best answer here, Mana Convert will simply take over in its stead. Better would be to address the fundamental problems - Spell Fork is only OP because there exists powerful casters that can cast in all of the first three rounds. Mana Convert is OP because Ulthur can stabilize long enough for Wyvern to nuke several times, while Caller keeps the team going. Here's what I think: * Nerf Water Wall to granting 3 or 4 MP initially, 5 MP when fully evolved. This forces many casters to rest in Round 3 (if needing 7 MP) or Round 2 (if needing 8 MP, but these are generally cards pre-Lv4). The main drawback here is that it makes arguably the hardest Campaign mission (plus several in Act 2) easier. * Casting should not be normal speed, the majority of mages should be at Slow speed. This fixes the problem where a Normal-speed team is often losing members to Spell Fork on Round 1 before they even get their first move in. * Mana Convert should grant mana at a 2 damage:1 mana rate. It will still be quite viable, but this will slow the pace down enough that you won't see a bunch of front-line mages out-tanking hard hitters, as is the case now. * Decay and Ghost Walk should cost 1 mana, down from 2 mana. They should provide cheap means to take on healing/Uneasy Sleep and tank-bypassing respectively, while still seeing little play due to the opportunity cost of not taking a different Sorcery. * Blessed Meek currently isn't viable. I don't think making it cost 1 mana fixes that, so instead I would like to see it cost 3 mana and have the original +2/+2 effect, and see what happens. This would also require some Campaign re-balancing. * Anti-Mage should cost 10 MP initially and 8 MP fully evolved, down from 12/10. This should be safe, as it keeps Anti-Mage horrible vs non-MP teams, but also allows for Water Wall acceleration if the player desires (in conjunction with the Water Wall nerf). * Poison Mage probably needs help. I'd like to see him come down to 10/8 MP as well, his ability is overpriced considering that it triggers TP-gain and generally gets shrugged off for 1-2 damage + slow-acting tokens. Perhaps a speed of Fast could help him find a niche? There isn't enough good poison synergy for him to see play currently. |
|
|
|
Post by stillgrave on Jan 30, 2015 22:11:17 GMT -8
What do you all think if we could even the odds on Tactical Points vs Magic Points? Require more MP to cast spells or less TP for abilities? Water Wall wouldn't need to be addressed and the Tactician, Reya, Aggression would have more use.
Or maybe, TP gain, or partial gain from being hit with a spell? Wind cards would see much more use with the damage blocking abilities. Poor Rob and Janika would see more action. Maybe create a Sorcery card that will let this happen?
Or allow some cards like Mountain Troll, Fire Wall, Slippery Warrior, or anything with the Shield ability to reflect back partial/full magic damage? Or turn the Mountain Troll into a Sorcery card...wait never mind that would be ridiculous.
And on the subject of poison synergy/wasted damage, do you all think that Renewing Cleric and Tree of Life are in the same boat?
|
|
|
|
Post by xuande on Jan 31, 2015 2:37:09 GMT -8
Renewing Cleric actually sees fringe play, some Mana Convert lineups use her for the respectable defense (for a front-line Mage that isn't Soulstealer, anyway). Wind Caller is more commonly chosen, but I've also seen a lineup using both.
Tree of Life already has a niche, and the Campaign even tries to show it off - synergy with Uneasy Sleep.
I think TP gain from spell hits is a decent idea, and I also think the idea of reflecting spell damage somehow is worth looking into. It wouldn't work well with the Shield mechanic, though - too few minions have it in any quantity, and Shieldbearer already got a recent buff.
|
|
|
|
Post by stillgrave on Feb 24, 2015 13:49:02 GMT -8
Or maybe Malestorm could subtract Magic Power at later levels.
|
|
|
|
Post by Laveley on Mar 25, 2015 14:06:54 GMT -8
You guys find bat swarm useful? Curious as to why. It fits the colors, is cheap and flying? Are you kidding? Best 1 cost of the game. Amazing stats (28 hp!!!!), more than a lot of 2 cost. On top of that have flying which is a good ability per se (only 1 cost that have if i'm not mistaken), its fast AND has an useful innate ability that prevents heal. Seriously... As for why magic damage dealers dominate, its because the phisical ones relly in TP which is obviously much worse than MP; magic dealers gain 5 mp guaranteed per turn and dont need to deal or receive any damage for that. Also, the majority of the abilities that cost TP for some reason cost awfully a lot in comparison to MP. A lot of magic abilities cost less than 10 and the really good ones cost 15 mp. The tp abilities cost around 20 and the good ones sometimes 30 or 35... The drawback to demage dealers should be the crappy stats... but that isnt really a drawnback when you can spam your abilities with safe for several turns right off the bat like happens with spellfork/mana convert etc. Yeah, i agree, magical damage should trigger tp gain, at least. |
|
